Postby numbknots » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:40 pm

This thread seems very empty, I wonder why. Does anyone really race freedoms? I wonder if they have any success in bouy racing or any race that has an upwind leg. Can they make up the time lost going upwind in a cat ketch with off wind speed? I know I can't. Numbknots
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Re: Racing?

Postby Rick Simonds » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:05 pm

A week from Saturday I’ll enter my once-a-year race. It’s a charity event for the American Cancer Society and my company partially sponsors it, so I feel some obligation to make an appearance, but I always enjoy it, too. I always enter the cruising class, and around here it is a GENUINE cruising class; no racers ever sandbag just to get a trophy. The locals call it the “blender fleet” (- “who can make the best Pina Colada during the race?”) We have good food and drinks aboard as well, the cook is as important than the tactician.

Despite that I usually do reasonably well against the other true cruising boats, always somewhere in the upper third. One year they set a very long windward/leeward course in light air and I got whomped. I stomped everybody one year on what turned out to be a bunch of beam reaching. I'm in a Hoyt 32 Cat/Sloop and, from what I've seen, perhaps I'm somewhat closer-winded than the ketches. Some Freedoms have done quite well in more serious distance racing but I think you’re generally right about round-the-buoys racing: Short of a fluke we’ll never beat the very close winded boats.

Racing is okay, it’s a nice way to spend a day and we’ll sail our best, so long as we can follow our one absolute rule:

“No Yelling.”

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Re: Racing?

Postby phildowney » Sun May 17, 2009 8:39 am

hi we race kusi
and theis is how she sails:
we are below average to windward and in light winds hopeless
very very competitive 60 degrees apparent to 90 degrees
90 + still fast but now everyone else can set spinnakers
then on a broad reach to a run with the boom out and the big asymetric out the other side and the board up we are fast and stable

in light airs (for us under 10 knots )we loose out massively upwind
but reach and run ok due to staysails

above 15 knots we are less quick than others upwind but still get there and off the wind are fast

in heavy airs the boat can take more wind than some of the lighter boats which start to slow down and handling and seakeeping are better so you sail at 100 % for more of the tiome

and did i mention headsail changes upwind... in changing breezes shorthanded we find we get sleep while others are up at night changing sails

i have had a go at round the cans and with a big well rehaersed crew it could be done but due to typical courses being windward/ leeward ie 75% of time spent to windward and 18 knots of breeze being considered windy it isnt practical also my worst nightmare would be to be storming along on a windy day main out to weather and big kite up and then find a big expensive swan calling "starboard" and need to gybe.oops !!!!! cant gybe instantly without shreading the kite with the boom

i prefer shorthanded passagemaking anyway and thats why i bought a f35 in the first place so we do the rsyc double handed series which is great fun and since its port to port races you get whatever wind is about so often end up reaching which suits us nicely

phil downey, f35 ck c/b carbon masts gbr1181c "kusi"
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Re: Racing?

Postby Old Buzzard » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:16 pm

My brother and I have raced the Hoyt 32 since new in 84 and have done extremely well with the boat.
It is a jib and main killer, especially if they set a true windward leeward coarse. On the weather leg you have to foot and go for speed don't pinch. Once around the weather mark the sloop rigged boats genoa becomes almost useless while the barn door main on the Freedom can go dead downwind marching past boats giving us time. We dominated our local Wednesday night jib and main racing for years. Every year they would lower our rating to the point that we give time to 38' boats. It's the only boat I've raced that the jib and main PHRF rating is lower then the spinnaker rating.

We have also raced the boat in double handed long distance races and always did well in-fact we set a course record in the Huron Challenge that took 5 years for someone to beat the record. The boat is so easy to sail that you can carry sail short handed that other boats can't match. The thing that would real get the other short handed racers was when they would came aboard after the race and see just how comfortable the boat that just beat them is.

We don't race it as much since we bought a 35' sport boat, but when we do it still finishes in the top of the fleet.
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Postby numbknots » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:15 pm


Have you experimented with centerboard position while going up wind? I have a friend here in Sarasota FL that built a Sharpie cat ketch/flat bottom. He was telling me when he designed the centerboard he made it drop at an angel when deployed. He found he had much better upwind performance with that design.
I was out last weekend and just dropped my board so it was probably 1/3 down leaving leading edge trailing back at an angle and it did seem to point better according to my compass heading. Or maybe I took a swig of that Freedom Kool-aid again. Bk
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Re: Racing?

Postby Teke's Pride » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:10 am

My club held its anual dinner 2 weeks ago and I found out that I had placed third in the Fall Handicap Series sailing my F21 SD single handed.

I posted the following on the site about my First Place in the 2009 Great River Race:

The Browns Creek Sailing Club hosted its 40th Great River Race on the Tennessee
River's Lake Guntersville in Alabama this past weekend. Boats competed in
either the long race (70 miles or 24 hours) or the short race (17 miles or 8
hours). Each race had two divisions (Spinnaker and non-Spinnaker). The course
follows the river and is thus "U" shaped.

My older brother (Paul owns a Lancer 25) flew up from Jacksonville, FL to crew
for me. For several reasons we opted for the Short Race.

Both races and all of the classes shared the same course and the same start. At
race time the winds were only about 5 mph from the SE and it looked like it was
going to be a repeat of last year's drift fest. We were well positioned for the
start and crossed the line 4th. The first leg was down wind so we set the chute
as soon as we cleared the line. We were still fourth at the first mark (a nun
about 3 miles from the start line) but 2 of the leading boats sailed to the next
nun before making their turn and thus we were the second boat to round the mark
and start the beat to windward. By the time we had covered 3 more river miles
(more like 6 miles of tacking) the rest of the Spinnaker boats had left us
behind and the Non-Spinnaker fleets had started to catch us. The wind had now
freshened to about 8-10 and veered to SW. I had 3 thirty-foot cruisers pass me
before the wind shift and the bend of the river allowed me to hoist the
spinnaker again and sheet it in tight and reach. It was like I found a passing

Another 2 miles and I cleared the bridge and I could see the rest of the
Spinnaker boats (28 to 34 footer all) about 3 miles ahead. The wind continued
to veer to the West and freshen. By the time I had covered the afore mentioned
3 miles I was only about a mile and a half behind and the non-spinnaker boat
were a mile behind me.

Rounding the second mark put me close hauled and sailing south. The wind was
now WSW and still freshening (10-15 mph). We held our own until the course of
the river made us start beating back towards the bridge (3 miles as the crow
flies) and the finish line (another 3 miles beyond that). There were some real
tacking duels with the big non-spinnaker boats and myself. At 2 miles it was
obvious the sloops were not only sailing closer to the wind but that I had a lot
more leeway. 3/4 of a mile from the bridge I crossed tacks a boat length ahead
of the leading non-Spin boat. On the next crossing, about a half-mile from the
bridge I was on Port and had to fall off to allow the other boat right-of-way (I
crossed about 5 feet astern of her). During all of this the winds gusted above
20mph several times. My brother and I were sitting on the side of the cockpit
coaming with the opposite rail awash at least twice.

The finish was rather unexciting for all of that. We finished second (by more
than an hour) on uncorrected time in the Spinnaker class and two of the
Non-Spinnaker boats finished ahead of us as well. After our handicaps were
figured it turns out we had won our class by about 20 minutes and beaten all but
one of the Non-Spinnaker boats.

Not bad for my first race as skipper and my first race in a F21.
Last edited by Teke's Pride on Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Clark Myers
Teke's Pride
F21 #345

Browns Creek Sailing Association
Lake Guntersville, AL
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Re: Racing?

Postby Michel » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:22 am

I experimented a lot with my centerboard on the F33/35 catketch but found close hauled performance best with the board down. Your (seemingly) higher pointing ability may be destroyed by lots of extra leeway; did you also check on your wake angle? I always used my board like I did on my Laser; close hauled -> board down; beam reach -> board half up; broad reach and run -> board fully up. I really got big arms lifting that 1000 lbs board every time with 80 turns of the winch.
Michel Capel, Freedom 44 #4 1981 'Alabama Queen', NED8188, cat ketch with wishbones, home port Enkhuizen, the Netherlands, 52*42.238'N 005*18.154'E.
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Re: Racing? tekes pride

Postby numbknots » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:31 pm

Congrats on your result in race. The F21 is a soop rig which has a lifting keel. The F 28 is a cat ketch with a "heading keel", apples and oranges my friend. Bk
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Re: Racing?

Postby Teke's Pride » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:15 pm


The F21 has a fixed keel in both of the US configurations. The "Standard" F21s have a fixed fin and draw about 3'9" while the Shoal Draft boats (like mine) have a fiberglass enclosed Pb skeg keel and draw just 2'.

I race mine as a catboat (no jib) and fly my spinnaker from the gun mount. I have a class jib and if I used it the PHRF would rate me as a Sloop SD in stead of a Cat SD. I don't use the jib because I am usualy racing single handed and it is impossable to go forward and swap out the halyard from the jib head to the Spinnaker head under race conditions when one is by himself.

I am hoping to add a second halyard to the front of my mast about 4" to 6" above the existing one. I would use this new halyard for the spinnaker and use the old one to hoist the jib on a Harken Small Boat Furling System. If I make this modification I will attach the foot of the jib to the bow pulpit cross member aft of the spinnaker launch opening so I will be able to launch and recover either the jib or the chute from the cockpit.
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Browns Creek Sailing Association
Lake Guntersville, AL
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Re: Racing?

Postby Capitan Sardina » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:33 pm

I just got my local PHRF for a F-40 CK (with booms): 180

I entered the lake's "long distance race" (16 mi). The first leg was downwind and reaching in 5-10 kts. I did GREAT!! I was hanging there with the spinnaker light air specialist racers in my heavy cruiser with full water, 1/2 poop tank and tons of beer! For the entire leg I was miles ahead (really!) of the normal "cruiser-racers" Pearson 34, hunters, etc.

Then we turned the mark and the wind got even lighter. In the upwind leg the cruiser-races inexorably cought up and I ended up in the middle (they had to short finish the race since the wind died).

So, no news here. Reaching she's a flyer. Gentlemen and pretty girls don't go to wheather.


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