F39PH Plumbing

Fresh/Waste Water Systems, Watermakers, HVAC, Refrigeration...
Tom
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F39PH Plumbing

Post by Tom »

I have recently bought an 83 F39 PH and am in the process of fixing all the nonoperational systems. I have found the port water tank to be caved in on the side, I'm guessing by vacuum. Has anyone else encountered this? Also, how should the shower drain be connected, is/was there a pump located by the water heater for the shower drain?

Thanks,

Tom

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Michel
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Location: Zaanstad, the Netherlands, EU

Re: F39PH Plumbing

Post by Michel »

Hello Tom, welcome to this board. You might want to ask Alain, he has an F39PH too.
Michel Capel, Freedom 44 #4 1981 'Alabama Queen', NED8188, cat ketch with wishbones, home port Enkhuizen, the Netherlands, 52*42.238'N 005*18.154'E.

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Alain
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Re: F39PH Plumbing

Post by Alain »

Tom wrote: I have found the port water tank to be caved in on the side, I'm guessing by vacuum. Has anyone else encountered this? Also, how should the shower drain be connected, is/was there a pump located by the water heater for the shower drain?
Hi Tom,
The (forward) shower has a drain pump located in the pump farm beside the water hearter. PAR Model 37202-Series. Actuated with a) switch on the main 12V circuit panel and b) toggle in the shower.
I also encounter at time problems with the water tanks (port and starboard) for which I haven't found a solution yet, because accessibility to tanks is nil on this particular Freedom. At time, the port/starboard tank will siphon itself in the bilge if I overfill it, to a point where the tank caves in. A mystery to me! I don't have the slightest idea where the vent pipes are located, caving in should not happen if the vent is free. Other problem I have with the tanks when using the water pump. The breaker will go after a short time the pump is on, I checked the pump and pressure switch, OK, again I suspect the culprit to be blocked tank vents: if so, the air can't enter the tank, the tank will cave in as water is pumped, the will suck desperatly and heat up.
Let me know if and when you find the vent pipes on the tanks, I'll check mine.
Cheers
Alain
Naïade, F39PH '83, Montréal

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Michel
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Re: Water tank vents

Post by Michel »

Tom, Alain,

I don't know if it helps, but on my 1981 F44 the tank vents are inside the chain locker, just around the corner to the left and tucked away in the corner of the bulkhead and the hull, just below the deck. The two hoses (same type and diameter as the freshwater plumbing hoses) are bent down in a sharp U-turn and held that way with a large tie-wrap that also fixes the hoses against the bulkhead. The U-turn could be such that the hose is squeezed. I also have a vacuum, when I open the deck filler cap, air is sucked in.
Last edited by Michel on Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michel Capel, Freedom 44 #4 1981 'Alabama Queen', NED8188, cat ketch with wishbones, home port Enkhuizen, the Netherlands, 52*42.238'N 005*18.154'E.

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Alain
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Re: Water tank vents

Post by Alain »

Michel wrote: I also have a vacuum, when I open the deck filler cap, air is sucked in.
Michel,
Thanks for the hint on vent pipe location, will check in April...
I also experience a vacuum draft when I unscrew the filler caps. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a vent made to equalize pressure between tank and atmosphere? Did you experience high amps problems while pumping fresh water from either thank? If a vent is blocked, I'd expect the problem to be more noticable when tanks are full (will not cave in). I tried to run the fresh water pump with the filler caps off, it didn't stop the pump breaker going off.
Alain
Naïade, F39PH '83, Montréal

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Michel
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Re: Water tank vents

Post by Michel »

Alain wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a vent made to equalize pressure between tank and atmosphere?
Yeah, so the vent hose must be blocked somewhere. It could be dirt or it could be the tight U-bend in the hose.

Alain wrote:Did you experience high amps problems while pumping fresh water from either thank? If a vent is blocked, I'd expect the problem to be more noticable when tanks are full (will not cave in). I tried to run the fresh water pump with the filler caps off, it didn't stop the pump breaker going off.
I haven't noticed my tanks caving in; they are polyethelene (anyway, some kind of plastic) and the walls are a half inch thick. I never hear them pop in or out or anything. I never experienced a tripped breaker or extremely high amps on the fresh water pump. What I do experience is air sucked into the fresh water plumbing somewhere along the line.

If your pump breaker goes off with the tank filler cap off, there might be a blockage somewhere downstream from the pump. Perhaps calcium build up in the mesh of your faucets?
Michel Capel, Freedom 44 #4 1981 'Alabama Queen', NED8188, cat ketch with wishbones, home port Enkhuizen, the Netherlands, 52*42.238'N 005*18.154'E.

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THATBOATGUY
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Re: F39PH Plumbing

Post by THATBOATGUY »

Mud Dauber Wasps love vent lines for some reason.

George
George and Kerri Huffman S/V Marquesa Freedom 40 CC CK Sail MarquesaImage

Tom
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Re: Water tank vents

Post by Tom »

Alain wrote:
Michel wrote: I also have a vacuum, when I open the deck filler cap, air is sucked in.
Michel,
Thanks for the hint on vent pipe location, will check in April...
I also experience a vacuum draft when I unscrew the filler caps. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a vent made to equalize pressure between tank and atmosphere? Did you experience high amps problems while pumping fresh water from either thank? If a vent is blocked, I'd expect the problem to be more noticable when tanks are full (will not cave in). I tried to run the fresh water pump with the filler caps off, it didn't stop the pump breaker going off.
Alain,

I tracked down both port and starboard vents, they are attached to the tank just outboard of the fill hose connection and are the gray plastic material that the water lines use. The starboard goes up and does a small loop along the outboard forward panel behind the electrical panel and then goes down below the cabin sole just in front of the engine. Both vents end at the same location, just in front of the engine. My vent hoses had a threaded end on the gray pipe but no connection. My port loop was very tight and crimped, it could be the cause of the vacuum problem. Suggest you look at yours as well.

My fuel vents run alongside the hull/deck joint on both sides of the boat and attach to vents going out the stern.

I found the shower drain vent, midship on the port side, there are two vents there, I don't know what the second one is for, any ideas?

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Alain
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Re: Water tank vents

Post by Alain »

Tom wrote:Suggest you look at yours as well.
Thanks Tom, sure will!
Tom wrote:I found the shower drain vent, midship on the port side, there are two vents there, I don't know what the second one is for, any ideas?
Siphons vents on the port side, yes, one is for the shower pump, the other for the bilge pump. They connect to the 2 through-hull above the waterline on the port side (see picture attached). Had to change both vents last summer Hard to reach, the through hulls are located behind the water heater, in front of the water tank.
Do you have A\C's in your boat? If so, make sure that hoses coming out are vented. On my boat, they were connected directly to through hulls, without anti-siphon vent
Attachments
2 plastic through-hull at the waterline on the port side, midship: one bilge, one shower pump outlet
2 plastic through-hull at the waterline on the port side, midship: one bilge, one shower pump outlet
Through hull port.jpg (62.6 KiB) Viewed 9269 times
Last edited by Alain on Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Alain
Naïade, F39PH '83, Montréal

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THATBOATGUY
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Re: Water tank vents

Post by THATBOATGUY »

Alain wrote: Do you have A\C's in your boat? If so, make sure that hoses coming out are vented. On my boat, they were connected directly to through hulls, without anti-siphon vent. to, and not going out straight . On my boat, the hoses coming out of the AC units were connected straight to through hull, no vent.
I'm confused, why on earth would you feel a need to vent the A/C water cooling circulation lines?

George
George and Kerri Huffman S/V Marquesa Freedom 40 CC CK Sail MarquesaImage

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