Mizzen sheet on F39PHS (also mast climbing)

[Mike Holibar]

Hi guys,
Just a quick update- I couldn't source a nauta bag locally so I am having a bag made up by a local inflatable dinghy manufacturer. We are using 380mm dia pontoon section about 1000mm long with four webbing straps longitudinally to carry the weight. the four straps will come together at the top with an eyelet for the halyard shackle.On the side near the bottom will be the hose connection. There is quite a bit of interest in it and I reckon I will be able to hire it out a couple of times to offset the cost! It should be ready in the next week or so so I will report on actual operation.

I have another boat, a wooden Rasmus 35 which is for sale. A survey last week detected a "small" area of rot in the transom so I set out to fix it this weekend. Well, about half the transom has to be replaced as it turns out, so thaeditt will keep me busy for a while! I quite enjoy the work but it is keeping me away from my beloved Freedom.
Cheers,

[Michel]

Mike, how do you fill the waterbag if the hose connection is near the bottom? do you have so much water pressure down there?

[Mike Holibar]

Michel,
the bag will be flat (containing no air) before filling so the only pressure will be from the head. The head is a product of height not volume, so if there is enough pressure to fill the bag from its top then the same pressure will fill it from the bottom. The required head is about 16 metres which I hope we can extract from our local water main. If not we'll have to lower the bag a little and winch it back up when full enough.

[katorpus]

You'll also have to leave the hose attached until the bag descends to deck level, at which point your (hopefully nimble-fingered crew) can remove it and quickly seal the inlet...before enough water escapes to cause your descent.

Failure to do this could cause you to find yourself lying on the deck with the last of the water from the bag (once again at mast-top) draining onto your broken (or at least bruised) body.

I would suggest having an ascender on your harness and clipping that into the line to which the bag is attached once you are up and it is down. This would avoid the above scenario.

Also, you're going to have to allow for the weight of the hose and the water in the hose when filling the bag...once you start to rise off the deck, run in a little more water so you'll have some to bleed out when making your adjustments. You might want to incorporate a small "bleed off" valve in your rig so that you don't have to fiddle with the main inlet/drain plug to do this.

This all reminds me of the old story of the brick mason who finished a tall wall on a Saturday...with one helper.

He had extra bricks on the top of the scaffold and loaded them into a wooden barrel on a rope & pulley and signalled the helper to lower it down. The helper then untied the rope.

As the mason pushed the barrel free of the edge of the scaffold, he lost his balance and grabbed the rope, falling off. The combination of bricks, barrel & mason outweighed the helper and he shot up to the top of the wall...hitting his head on the barrel on the way up, but managing to hang on.

When the helper got to the top...two knuckles deep into the top sheave but still holding on, the barrel hit the ground and the bottom broke out.

The mason lost HIS grip when he hit the ground ...the helper (counterweighted now by nothing more than the empty, bottomless barrel) then plummeted, hit the barrel (on its way up) while he was on the way down, then hit the ground...on top of the mason, at which point the helper finally let go of the rope...and the barrel fell full height and hit both of them.

[Mike Holibar]

Thanks Katorpus, I had heard that story on the radio, I believe the chap had to have a couple of days off work!. The idea emptying from above would have the benefit of washing the blood away before it stains the deck but despite this attraction I thought I would fit a valve at the bag to avoid that problem. I will definately be using an ascender as you suggest.

[Michel]

Mike, wouldn't it be smart to also fit a valve at the deck end of the filling hose? The valve in the bag can only be reached if you and the bag are both halfway up the mast.

-- somehow I feel as if you guys are pulling my leg with all this nonsense about water bags to go up the mast.... it all sounds too funny, especially after the story of the mason and his mate. I can see all kinds of extremely funny situations happening, all very suitable to become multimillion hit clips on Youtube.

I use a much simpler way to go up the mast; I rig a line to the anchor windlass. But you do need two people that know what they're doing.

[katorpus]

I assure you that I'm not pulling anyone's leg about the water bag mast ascension.

One more thing you might consider...

Have a tether line attached (and running free) to the bottom of the bag...That way, if the boat gets rolling and rocking while you and the bag are both "out of reach" and you end up doing the "maypole thing" with the lines wrappped around the mast, then someone might still be able to help get you un-wrapped from deck level...once they quit laughing, that is.

[THATBOATGUY]

I'm sorry. I almost never do this but I'm going to have to say that I think the entire water bag ascending thing has got way too many chances for Murphy to step in. I consider myself a kind of daring do fellow but I wouldn't do it. Sorry about the buzz kill. I really hope things work out for the best.

George

[Mike Holibar]

Katorpus, I had thought the tether essential to control the bag and swing it clear of any obstructions such as the radome. My partner should be able to manage that.

Michel, the windlass is the method I use to get my son up the mast. Unfortunately there is no one in my crew with enough experience that I would trust them to haul me up there! The tap serves as the valve at the bottom end.

George, thank you for your concern. I am nervous about heights and will be using an ascender and or grigri on a seperate halyard as a belay. I have thought about the loads on the blocks and it is about the same as the windlass method, but more like a static load as opposed to the dynamic loads created by puffing my way up via an ascender. I am also very lazy and therfore interested in this method as it would seem to get me where I don't want to go with the least amount of effort. As regards friend Murphy, what ever can go wrong will go wrong, we have so far come up with measures to deal with the known "can go wrongs". I will always be grateful to hear of any other possible problems in advance. Lift off is still a week or two away. Cheers,

[katorpus]

There is no more load on the masthead block with the waterbag approach than there is with any other method of "hauling you up"...

Look at it this way...in order to raise a 165 lb load on one "side" of the halyard, you need at least 165 lbs of downward force applied to the other "side".

The waterbag is actually safer in this regard. If you match your own weight with the weight of bag & water, that's ALL the force that can be applied to the other side of the halyard (and it's static, unless the bag gets hung up and suddenly "drops"..or you do).

If you're on a winch or windlass and get "hung up", the force applied to both sides of the halyard (and you) will continue to increase (dynamically) until somebody stops cranking, ratcheting, or releases the button that controls the (electric) windlass (or until some body part gives way).

With a little innovation, you could "self tend" the bag by running the tether through a block on a rail or cabin top somewhere and back through another turning block and taking the tail up with you. The tether would limit the movement of the bag to a single plane and prevent it wrapping around the mast. If the radome happens to be at the midpoint of the mast, you & the bag would arrive at the radome simultaneously. You likely wouldn't need to adjust the tether as you go up and down, since the slack resulting from the descending bag would be taken up by your own ascent & vice versa. Just don't put the first block TOO far away from the mast base or you'll be unable to completely ascend to the masthead as the bag is pulled away from the mast.

All that being said, it' best to have a helper. Minimal skills & attentiveness are required.