For the first time, I pulled the mast on my 1988 F30. Since it was the first time, I hired a yard to do the work. Well they have screwed up putting it back into the boat.
The silicone flanges that are waged between the deck & the mast are not installed correctly. They put the mast in & then were trying to pound the flange back into place with a hammer & piece of wood. The flange is not moving. They are talking about shaving it down so that it will fit. That sounds like it has the potential to be dangerous.
They did not have time to finish the job yesterday & so my boat has the mast in with the silicone flange hanging out of the bottom in the cabin below.
It seems like they need to pull the mast again & somehow get these flanges in correctly before seating the mast on the hull.
I need to provide some direction, because they seem to want to move on to the next job & finish this one any way they can. Correctly or not. HELP!
Steping the mast on an F30
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Mark Thompson
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:34 pm
- Location: Grosse Pointe, MI USA
Steping the mast on an F30
Mark
Eleuthera, F30-78
Grosse Pointe Park, MI
Eleuthera, F30-78
Grosse Pointe Park, MI
Re: Steping the mast on an F30
Is your flange on single piece - a "donut"? On my F25 the single piece flange fits in from the top down. You first slide the flange up the mast past the height of the deck collar and then lower the mast into position. Once the mast is settled on the keel you then tap the flange into place with a block of wood and a hammer.
F25 "Small Axe"
Okanagan Lake, BC
Okanagan Lake, BC
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Mark Thompson
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:34 pm
- Location: Grosse Pointe, MI USA
Re: Steping the mast on an F30
Mine is 2 pieces. Both go all the way around the mast. On top the other lower.
Mark
Eleuthera, F30-78
Grosse Pointe Park, MI
Eleuthera, F30-78
Grosse Pointe Park, MI
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jschneider
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:20 am
Re: Steping the mast on an F30
I did not see the yard install the mast on my 1987 F30, but I never had anything hanging out from anywhere. They did say that it was a very difficult job.
Jorge
weeble, F30
Huntington, NY
Jorge
weeble, F30
Huntington, NY
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Mark Thompson
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:34 pm
- Location: Grosse Pointe, MI USA
Re: Steping the mast on an F30
Well, mast is still not installed and phone calls are not being returned
. I think I will have to find a new yard. Bummer.
. I think I will have to find a new yard. Bummer.
Mark
Eleuthera, F30-78
Grosse Pointe Park, MI
Eleuthera, F30-78
Grosse Pointe Park, MI
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Mark Thompson
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:34 pm
- Location: Grosse Pointe, MI USA
Re: Steping the mast on an F30
Received this from the old Yahoo site that is still somewhat active:
Freedom's original mast wedges were a hard polyurethane rubber, and they
are supposed to be put in (likely pounded in with a non-mast-injuring
hammer) from above, not too differently from how wooden mast wedges were
traditionally used.
Mine were long gone, and the spartite wedge put on my masts by a prior
owner were destroyed when I had the masts removed, so I cast new ones
when all my mast work was done.
Spartite is sold for this job, and while I've not heard of anybody
having a problem because of this, I have heard that it is a little too
soft for freestanding masts. I used a very similar product PMC-790, not
marketed or priced for the marine market. It is normally sold for making
molds for concrete pavers and stuff like that. The "trial kit" was
enough to do the job for both my masts. FYI, I ordered it here:
http://www.theengineerguy.com/PMC-790-TrialKit.html and it was enough
for both my masts.
If you find that the wedges you have are indeed a little bit too small
and slip through the partners, you might be able to put them in, and
cast something like PMC-790 or spartite around them to fill the gaps. I
suspect that the existing wedges are a bit harder, which is better
suited to the job.
The other thing you might want to do is fabricate something to go under
the mast partners and keep the wedges from falling out if they get
loose. I made a plywood template, and had it cut out of thin sheet
stainless steel. It acts as a backing plate for the bolts holding my
mast ring down, which probably isn't needed, and it goes in past the
partners, leaving a small gap all around the mast (I think ~1/8")
You *really* don't want these wedges to fall out while you are sailing.
If the mast starts banging around in the partners, it can fail at the
deck level--it has happened before.
I can give you more details on how I did either the molding or the
underdeck supports.
Hope that helps!
Barry
Freedom's original mast wedges were a hard polyurethane rubber, and they
are supposed to be put in (likely pounded in with a non-mast-injuring
hammer) from above, not too differently from how wooden mast wedges were
traditionally used.
Mine were long gone, and the spartite wedge put on my masts by a prior
owner were destroyed when I had the masts removed, so I cast new ones
when all my mast work was done.
Spartite is sold for this job, and while I've not heard of anybody
having a problem because of this, I have heard that it is a little too
soft for freestanding masts. I used a very similar product PMC-790, not
marketed or priced for the marine market. It is normally sold for making
molds for concrete pavers and stuff like that. The "trial kit" was
enough to do the job for both my masts. FYI, I ordered it here:
http://www.theengineerguy.com/PMC-790-TrialKit.html and it was enough
for both my masts.
If you find that the wedges you have are indeed a little bit too small
and slip through the partners, you might be able to put them in, and
cast something like PMC-790 or spartite around them to fill the gaps. I
suspect that the existing wedges are a bit harder, which is better
suited to the job.
The other thing you might want to do is fabricate something to go under
the mast partners and keep the wedges from falling out if they get
loose. I made a plywood template, and had it cut out of thin sheet
stainless steel. It acts as a backing plate for the bolts holding my
mast ring down, which probably isn't needed, and it goes in past the
partners, leaving a small gap all around the mast (I think ~1/8")
You *really* don't want these wedges to fall out while you are sailing.
If the mast starts banging around in the partners, it can fail at the
deck level--it has happened before.
I can give you more details on how I did either the molding or the
underdeck supports.
Hope that helps!
Barry
Mark
Eleuthera, F30-78
Grosse Pointe Park, MI
Eleuthera, F30-78
Grosse Pointe Park, MI
Re: Steping the mast on an F30
Mark,
Several days ago, I wrote a detailed description of the procedure for stepping a freedom 30 mast. I clicked submit and the (lengthy) post disappeared. If you think it would be beneficial, I would be glad to re-write. Just let me know.
Bob
Several days ago, I wrote a detailed description of the procedure for stepping a freedom 30 mast. I clicked submit and the (lengthy) post disappeared. If you think it would be beneficial, I would be glad to re-write. Just let me know.
Bob
Sailmon (Captain Bob Allenick)
S/V Her Diamond
1991 Freedom 38
Cleveland, OH
S/V Her Diamond
1991 Freedom 38
Cleveland, OH
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Mark Thompson
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:34 pm
- Location: Grosse Pointe, MI USA
Re: Steping the mast on an F30
I have learned a lot with this experience. The way that we ended up getting the job done was to lower the mast to about 4” above the keel base. 2 people below deck, 2 above and a 5th on the crane.
Once positioned above the keel, we placed the silicone flange/mast wedge in place above the mast hole & slowly lowered the mast. At the same time, we pushed the flange down. The weight of the mast helped to move it lower. However, we ended up having to pound it in place. We used a piece of wood and a small sledge hammer.
Once we had the mast wedge in place, we tightened up the bolt at the bottom of the mast. Tight, but not too tight. Don’t want to break the carbon fiber mast. We then tightened up the mast color and caulked with the silicone. I’m sure we will learn more the next time.
Mark
Once positioned above the keel, we placed the silicone flange/mast wedge in place above the mast hole & slowly lowered the mast. At the same time, we pushed the flange down. The weight of the mast helped to move it lower. However, we ended up having to pound it in place. We used a piece of wood and a small sledge hammer.
Once we had the mast wedge in place, we tightened up the bolt at the bottom of the mast. Tight, but not too tight. Don’t want to break the carbon fiber mast. We then tightened up the mast color and caulked with the silicone. I’m sure we will learn more the next time.
Mark
Mark
Eleuthera, F30-78
Grosse Pointe Park, MI
Eleuthera, F30-78
Grosse Pointe Park, MI
Re: Steping the mast on an F30
I just unstepped the mast on our F-38 without wrecking the mast partner wedge. Here is the procedure we used:
(after running rigging and forestay have been removed and secured and boom and vang have been removed. and the floor boards around the mast step have been removed)
1. Unbolt the mast step retaining bolt (in our case threaded ss rod) and carefully drive it through the mast. Install lock nuts on the threaded rod with anti-sieze lube to prevent thread galling when reinstalling next Spring. Disconnect mast wiring at mast butt and tape wire ends t0 mast wall. Disconnect ss rod tensioner between the deck and mast step at the mast step end.
2. Loosen mast collar (vang) and mast boot and slide them carefully up the mast without scratching the paint. Tape them in place.
3. Remove the nuts on the top and bottom of the threaded ss rods holding the cast aluminum mast collar.
4. With 4 - 6 plastic or wooden wedges spaced evenly around the mast collar/deck joint, pry the collar up until the top of the flange is flush with the top of the ss rods.
5. Secure the mast in the lifting device (crane) by a heavy-duty line around the mast and under or through the gooseneck fitting, running up the mast to the (well-padded) crane hook, enabling the upper encircling rope or sling to be positioned just over half-way between the mast partners and the mast tip. (Our boatyard's crane also had an extension fabricated to go higher up our mast, with padded hydraulic jaws that encircled the mast above the top crane pulley. It was super-stable, and prevented the mast from hitting the crane's top pulley.) Take-up slack on the crane lift.
7. Using the 2x4 wooden beam* with the shaped end between the mast partner and the mast wall and against the bottom of the mast collar wedge, put the bottom of the beam on the bottle jack* and pump the jack to raise the mast wedge about 14". Move the beam and jack around the mast repeatedly to raise the wedge in 1/4" increments until you have been around the mast a few times and raised the wedge about 3/4".
8. Take strain on the crane lift. If the mast does not come free at this time, continue using the jack and beam to drive the wedge upward until the mast becomes free. Once free, the large mast partners hole facilitates easy lifting of the mast and ample clearance for the mast wiring, but be careful to protect the head enclosure woodwork as the mast comes out.
9. If the top of the mast sling has not been positioned too high, then one or two people will be able to lift the mast butt as the crane lowers the mast to horizontal. (We positioned the upper encircling sling loop too high on the mast and we had too much weight on the mast butt, but were still able to handle it with two people.)
* I cut a wooden 2x4 at 65" L and then shaped the top end into a 3/4" thich semi-circle to a depth of about 3" to fit around the mast between the mast wall and the mast partners, so that it would drive the encircling mast wedge cleanly and without becoming jammed. I used a small hydraulic "bottle" jack with a square of plywood under it to force the beam upward, driving the mast wedge in 1/4". The wedge came out in excellent condition, ready to re-use.
This post should help the boatyard get your mast out undamaged and with all-important partners wedge intact. My partners wedge was so tight that it allowed the mast crane to lift the bow of out boat 2" above the normal waterline when we put strain on the mast. That is when we called a halt on the unstepping and I fabricated the special beam and got the hydraulic bottle jack. Pounding the mast partners wedge from underneath using a short wooden piece was having little effect on the wedge, which seemed to just absorb the impacts and mot move very much. The hydraulic jack and beam device was the key.
FYI - it took me 3 hours to remove the mainsail from the Harken luff cars and batten cars, remove the boom and vang, disconnect the wiring and remove the mast step retaining bolt, and remove the halyards to prepare to unstep the mast. Fabricating the 2x4 x 65" wooden beam and jacking the mast wedge took about one hour total (I had materials in-stock). With no stays and shrouds to remove (I took off the forestay), the boatyard workers had an easy job (once we got the wedge loosened).
I hope this will save Freedom owners some expense and aggravation. Note: my mast partners wedge was a single-piece tapered rubber-like material, green in color, with a rear tapered white color rubber wedge to take up the slight gap at the rear of the mast. The mast collar is aluminum, and it has a custom rubber mast boot between the stainless boom vang collar and the mast partner deck ring.
Rich
(after running rigging and forestay have been removed and secured and boom and vang have been removed. and the floor boards around the mast step have been removed)
1. Unbolt the mast step retaining bolt (in our case threaded ss rod) and carefully drive it through the mast. Install lock nuts on the threaded rod with anti-sieze lube to prevent thread galling when reinstalling next Spring. Disconnect mast wiring at mast butt and tape wire ends t0 mast wall. Disconnect ss rod tensioner between the deck and mast step at the mast step end.
2. Loosen mast collar (vang) and mast boot and slide them carefully up the mast without scratching the paint. Tape them in place.
3. Remove the nuts on the top and bottom of the threaded ss rods holding the cast aluminum mast collar.
4. With 4 - 6 plastic or wooden wedges spaced evenly around the mast collar/deck joint, pry the collar up until the top of the flange is flush with the top of the ss rods.
5. Secure the mast in the lifting device (crane) by a heavy-duty line around the mast and under or through the gooseneck fitting, running up the mast to the (well-padded) crane hook, enabling the upper encircling rope or sling to be positioned just over half-way between the mast partners and the mast tip. (Our boatyard's crane also had an extension fabricated to go higher up our mast, with padded hydraulic jaws that encircled the mast above the top crane pulley. It was super-stable, and prevented the mast from hitting the crane's top pulley.) Take-up slack on the crane lift.
7. Using the 2x4 wooden beam* with the shaped end between the mast partner and the mast wall and against the bottom of the mast collar wedge, put the bottom of the beam on the bottle jack* and pump the jack to raise the mast wedge about 14". Move the beam and jack around the mast repeatedly to raise the wedge in 1/4" increments until you have been around the mast a few times and raised the wedge about 3/4".
8. Take strain on the crane lift. If the mast does not come free at this time, continue using the jack and beam to drive the wedge upward until the mast becomes free. Once free, the large mast partners hole facilitates easy lifting of the mast and ample clearance for the mast wiring, but be careful to protect the head enclosure woodwork as the mast comes out.
9. If the top of the mast sling has not been positioned too high, then one or two people will be able to lift the mast butt as the crane lowers the mast to horizontal. (We positioned the upper encircling sling loop too high on the mast and we had too much weight on the mast butt, but were still able to handle it with two people.)
* I cut a wooden 2x4 at 65" L and then shaped the top end into a 3/4" thich semi-circle to a depth of about 3" to fit around the mast between the mast wall and the mast partners, so that it would drive the encircling mast wedge cleanly and without becoming jammed. I used a small hydraulic "bottle" jack with a square of plywood under it to force the beam upward, driving the mast wedge in 1/4". The wedge came out in excellent condition, ready to re-use.
This post should help the boatyard get your mast out undamaged and with all-important partners wedge intact. My partners wedge was so tight that it allowed the mast crane to lift the bow of out boat 2" above the normal waterline when we put strain on the mast. That is when we called a halt on the unstepping and I fabricated the special beam and got the hydraulic bottle jack. Pounding the mast partners wedge from underneath using a short wooden piece was having little effect on the wedge, which seemed to just absorb the impacts and mot move very much. The hydraulic jack and beam device was the key.
FYI - it took me 3 hours to remove the mainsail from the Harken luff cars and batten cars, remove the boom and vang, disconnect the wiring and remove the mast step retaining bolt, and remove the halyards to prepare to unstep the mast. Fabricating the 2x4 x 65" wooden beam and jacking the mast wedge took about one hour total (I had materials in-stock). With no stays and shrouds to remove (I took off the forestay), the boatyard workers had an easy job (once we got the wedge loosened).
I hope this will save Freedom owners some expense and aggravation. Note: my mast partners wedge was a single-piece tapered rubber-like material, green in color, with a rear tapered white color rubber wedge to take up the slight gap at the rear of the mast. The mast collar is aluminum, and it has a custom rubber mast boot between the stainless boom vang collar and the mast partner deck ring.
Rich
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Pelagicsailor
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:36 am
Re: Steping the mast on an F30
Thank you Rich for the great post.
I just purchased a F28 and I am preparing to unstep the mast for an extensive yard period next week. It was an estate sale so no one knows anything about the boat. This has been quite a leaning curve. It sounds like the procedure will be similar to yours. This is my first carbon fiber mast so I am scratching my head quite a bit and looking for solid information. Looking up the mast inside the boat it looks like the mast wedge is a one piece urethane unit with a split in it. During the last norther we had here in Florida the boat was rocking in her slip quite a bit and I could hear the mast working a little against the wedge so that tells me that there is some freedom of movement and I am hoping the mast will pop out with having to pound out the wedge. I will be prepared with a floor jack and two by four cut to the shape of the mast just in case. The mast length is around 44ft so I am assuming the lifting point should be around 22 ft. However, the mast looks quite a bit heavier at the base so the I am guessing the center of balance should be lower then half way. I am guessing that the forestay flange would be a good point to position the upper sling with a tag line connected to the gooseneck and taking most of the load. I am wondering what the weight of the mast will be though. Is a carbon fiber mast heavier that a similar length of mast made of aluminum? Any one out there know what the weight of the mast on a F28 or know where I can get that information?
Tom
Melbourne FL
I just purchased a F28 and I am preparing to unstep the mast for an extensive yard period next week. It was an estate sale so no one knows anything about the boat. This has been quite a leaning curve. It sounds like the procedure will be similar to yours. This is my first carbon fiber mast so I am scratching my head quite a bit and looking for solid information. Looking up the mast inside the boat it looks like the mast wedge is a one piece urethane unit with a split in it. During the last norther we had here in Florida the boat was rocking in her slip quite a bit and I could hear the mast working a little against the wedge so that tells me that there is some freedom of movement and I am hoping the mast will pop out with having to pound out the wedge. I will be prepared with a floor jack and two by four cut to the shape of the mast just in case. The mast length is around 44ft so I am assuming the lifting point should be around 22 ft. However, the mast looks quite a bit heavier at the base so the I am guessing the center of balance should be lower then half way. I am guessing that the forestay flange would be a good point to position the upper sling with a tag line connected to the gooseneck and taking most of the load. I am wondering what the weight of the mast will be though. Is a carbon fiber mast heavier that a similar length of mast made of aluminum? Any one out there know what the weight of the mast on a F28 or know where I can get that information?
Tom
Melbourne FL