F25 shots

F25 shots

Postby moosemcclintock » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:57 pm

Almost the end of the 2nd season racing my F25 wing mast. I did a lot better this year as I learned how to sail the boat a little better and cleaned up some of the systems, and did a slight re-cut on the main, which can be seen by the two black strips in the upper leech in this picture

http://www.shutterfly.com/progal/slides ... f38&idx=98

Pictures in these posts are from a race around Conanicut Island next to Newport. This was my start, not many boats hit the line on time

http://www.shutterfly.com/progal/slides ... 38&idx=143

But they got there eventually

http://www.shutterfly.com/progal/slides ... 38&idx=144
http://www.shutterfly.com/progal/slides ... 38&idx=145

Unfortunately, about 10 seconds after this my outhaul slug blew up and I spent the first leg (a reach, while I was single handing) trying to figure out how to get the clew tied down. In hindsight, I did it the hard way and lost a pile while I sat head to wind trying to tie the clew down. The rest of the fleet sailed away and I got stuck in a different weather pattern behind them with a lot less breeze. I've found that the boat sails very well from about 6-8 up to about 14. Below that it's stuck to the water and over that it's pretty tippy (besides the fact that I usually singlehand) because of a relatively narrow waterline beam. Fast downwind without a kite (I sailed boat for boat with a Sabre 38 for six miles on a run, no kite) and with a kite (boat for boat with a C&C 99 and Sabre 38 with kites). I've experimented with a slew of different setups in different breeze, traveler down, up , in between, sheet tight, eased, all different depending on the breeze. Still don't have it pegged but closing in. The recut on the main helped a lot, I added a lot of power up higher in the sail which I needed in the lighter stuff. Generally, my area has breeze in the 10-15 knot range, the last two years have been a little lighter, though. I thought about making a jib for it (basically for 0-8 knots) but the rig is pretty unstable with more wind (more loading would really make the tip fall off) and I'd have to carry the jib penalty when the breeze is up, have to think a little bit more about that one.

Things that bother me about the boat is that it sits so stern down, it's an inboard and I'm sure the boat wasn't designed for it, the weight of the engine combined with the weight of the fuel so far aft wren't figured into the hull shape. When I have crew I have them sit pretty far forward but that really makes the boat pitch in the waves so I'm not sure what to do on that front. Thinking about it, with an outboard it may not make that big a difference because it's not light and sits a lot further back. Another thing is the traveler, it's unsupported in the middle so every puff lifts the track and automatically depowers. If the car is down to the edge of the slider it's less of a problem but like I said, I've been trying different configurations and that isn't always the best. Another thing is getting the mast to tack all the time, I ended up rigging a line that goes from the arm that goes down to a block at the closest stanchion, with that I can pull on the arm mid tack to ensure it tacks correctly, I also douse the partners with WD40, seems to help a lot.

The one thing I did that was nice is take off all the original lines and replaced them with shorter lines that all double end. When the Pole is out there is only about 5 extra feet of line in the cockpit and I can play the pole very easily with one hand. The pole in/out has 4' total excess and is easily contained on one side with the stoppers, it doesn't even touch the cockpit seats. The spinnaker tack lines are one long piece, when the kite is sucked all the way in there is only about 3 feet of line in the cockpit, I can deploy the clews together with one hand since they're both on the same side. There is virtually no excess line in the cockpit when I sail and even sitting at the mooring the whole look is clean and neat. I made the vang into an 8:1 with the tail all the way back to the cockpit, I can pull it on pretty easily and in the right conditions can flick it off as well (like I said, I single hand a lot, my crew doesn't help much).

As for results, they've been mixed. I sailed a lot of other boats this summer so only got to race a couple times. I won a fleet race boat for boat when I was rated slowest, which was kind of nice. I sailed a race with my wife and daughter that was a little fluky, halfway thru the race we were third boat for boat in fleet (we started 10 minutes behind the big boats and I was only about 3 lengths behind the leader of that group, and way ahead of my fleet), but the breeze died and we ended up last of 10. I then sailed another race that is a navigator race, the point being to sail as far as possible over 6.5 hours, your rating gets figured into it, I won that by over 5 miles corrected. But in the race with the pictures above, the long beat in light air against the current killed me and i was second to last. So, good days and bad days. Actually, any day I sail the boat is good, so all good days.
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Re: F25 shots

Postby pstark » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:27 pm

Moose, I had a wing mast 25 years ago. I added a wire headstay and added an Etchells 22 jib, hanked on - it fit well. I made the check stays Spectra and and that helped with the headstay tension. The jib really helped the upwind perf. in light to moderate air. I also moved the traveller and mounted it across the cockpit seats at about where the end of the boom is. I didn't race this boat, but I am sure these improvements helped. I sold the boat to "Harv" in Oyster Bay. I now have a F21 but am thinking of another 25 with a round mast w/an OB or diesel.
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Re: F25 shots

Postby moosemcclintock » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:50 am

I've thought about different ways of doing a jib, and the Etchells jib was exactly what I thought of since I sail them and have access to a bunch of used ones. I know it would be great for the lighter conditions, how much wind did you carry it up to? I also considered doing a mainsheet aft, either by moving the traveler or making a bridal but my wife prefers it where it is since it's out of the way, she likes the open cockpit. I already made Dyneema runners as well(everything on the boat is Dyneema though I'm not sure it all requires that much strength though they are lighter and thinner than what they replaced).

I looked at Harv's boat before I sold mine, I didn't get it because it didn't have a trailer. My boat had one and was $2500 less with the inboard (which my wife also prefers) so I went that way but I certainly like what you did for performance, it's the exact things I've been considering.

I had an F21 before this boat (I got it for nothing from a friend who had to get it out of a boatyard) and enjoyed it but it was too small for my wife's liking. The F25 seems just right for what I like to do which is mostly singlehanded racing.
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Re: F25 shots

Postby moosemcclintock » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:52 pm

Results from a different kind of navigators race I did this summer. Everyone starts at any of 5 different starting points around Narragansett Bay in RI, the boat is anchored next to a mark with sails down and everyone has to be below, a radio alert at 9:00 starts the race. The objective is to sail as much distance as possible from selected marks with the appropriate mileage listed in 6 1/2 hours, with all boats finishing at the same place (so we can have a party). In this case, we all started at 9:00 am and I finished at 3:20 pm, there's no time penalty for finishing between 3:00 and 3:30 and a small time penalty for finishing between 3:30 and 4:00. After that time is DNF. It's really quite different from the regular windward leeward courses, or even sailing a distance race. You pick the marks you want to round (you can only sail the reciprocal once so you can't keep reaching back and forth between the same two marks) and just keep going with an eye at making sure you're not too far away from the finish as the time limit dwindles. In this race I picked a starting area pretty far up wind and up current, we started on a run, had a two mile beat in pretty good breeze with the current behind us, then a series of tight fetches with the current behind us again as it changed, either just off close hauled or with the spinnaker up. So, a little planning and you can cover a lot of distance on the Freedom's best sailing angles. I won this race a couple years ago in my Freedom 21 the day before a hurricane, I started way up current in practically no wind and let the low pressure tide surge carry me most of the way.

Results from Prince Henry
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Re: F25 shots

Postby GrahamF25 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:51 pm

Hi, I have been racing my Freedom 25, 'Round mast' with outboard, in our 'Solent' frostbite series. 5 races, wind speeds ranged from 8-26kts.
I found I can carry the head sail, about 100 sq ft, in winds up to about 12kts with 3 crew on the rail, and full main.

Have to reef the main above about 18kts, went with single reef main on the windy day 26kts.
The last race wind speed was about 14- 16kts, so full main with plenty of flateners in. I found by playing the main it was best to let the main half way down the track,'on the coach roof' and ease it a bit, this generated some twist in the upper leach area which seemed to help reduce the heal and she went faster to windward for only a small loss in pointing compared to the other boats.

On the light wind day 8kts, the boat went like a rocket downwind compared to the rest of the fleet, made about a 1 mile lead on a 3 mile run ! with boats that had the same speed upwind as me.

My mainsail is as old as the boat 1985 so no fat head.
How do others feel about the fat head main, do you have improved results ? if so, is that due to the 'fat head' or because you have a new sail ! With all that extra sail at the top of the mast I wonder if you may need to reef sooner going upwind or have to make do without the headsail above 10kts ect ?
Regards, Graham.
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Re: F25 shots

Postby Teke's Pride » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:50 am


I asked the same questions as you prior to replacing my original 1985 mainsail this summer. I was especially worried about additional heal as my F21 is a shoal keel and if I heel too much the keel literately disappears behind the chine and I pick up a lot of leeway. My worries were for naught. The extra sail area at the head twists off in high wind and the new sail is flatter than a baggy, blown out, nearly 30 years old sail thus instead of heal one gets lift which translates into forward motion. Before my new flat head I didn't bother to even try to race (after my first season trying) if the wind was less than 6 kts. Since the new sail I have been competitive with the fleet in winds as light as 2 kts!

I used Moose's original F21 flat head design but had the sail made from cross cut Dacron rather than the pricier laminates he gets his made from (it must be nice working for a sailcloth manufacture; I'm envious).
Clark Myers
Teke's Pride
F21 #345

Browns Creek Sailing Association
Lake Guntersville, AL
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