Offshore Downwind with Gunmount Spinnaker

Boat handling, ideas, questions...
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unfetteredalexandria
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:57 pm

Offshore Downwind with Gunmount Spinnaker

Post by unfetteredalexandria »

I’m curious to hear from folks with offshore experience running off the wind with the gun-mount spinnaker. I assume this will primarily be the F32 crowd.

I’ve found that my F25 handles really well under spinnaker alone going downwind in heavy conditions for inshore daysailing, probably better than with the main up as well. How does that compare to others’ experience, especially offshore, running off the wind for long periods of time?

If you find this strategy effective, how high do you find you can point before it makes sense to bring the main back into the picture?

If you’ve found it’s always or usually better to keep at least some of the main up, is your reefing strategy different than without the chute?

Do you find rolling to be better or worse with chute alone?

Do you find that you need running backstays, especially if not running with the main to provide some semblance of a backstay? If so, how did you rig them?

Do you find that a flatter, heavier spinnaker is needed? If so, what is your experience scaling down the size and shape, and scaling up the cloth weight?

Has anyone tried setting up a second spinnaker halyard, so you can run up a smaller or larger chute “inside” the flying one like racers do when changing headsails? If so, how did you do it? For the F32 and F29 with the camber-spar jib, might that halyard be used in this way? (Obviously you’d need to rig the pole with additional clew lines…)

It seems to me that in really serious conditions, trying to heave-to under triple-reefed main, or maybe a storm trysail would be the best strategy. On the F25, without a jib, I seem to only be able to get to a slow fore-reaching condition, as opposed to being truly hove-to, where you have almost no headway, and slow sidewise drift. Possibly flying some small bit of canvas from the spinnaker halyard would help here, but I’ve not tried. I’ve read that the F32 can heave-to just fine with its little camber-spar jib. Does anyone have other thoughts on this?

And before anyone gets sidetracked, NO, I don’t plan to go offshore in my F25, although I know this has been done.
1984 round-mast Freedom 25
Western Shore of the Chesapeake

gringstad
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:16 pm

Re: Offshore Downwind with Gunmount Spinnaker

Post by gringstad »

Setting up for the gunmount spinicker is a bit complex, I got it rigged and used successfully a few times with good performance but unlessthe lines are left riggged it is a chore to get set up. I'm now thinking of removing the boom and rigging for that reason so anyone interested in the set up in the puget sound region should contact me

gringstad
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:16 pm

Re: Offshore Downwind with Gunmount Spinnaker

Post by gringstad »

Oh. the set up is for a Freedom32

unfetteredalexandria
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:57 pm

Re: Offshore Downwind with Gunmount Spinnaker

Post by unfetteredalexandria »

That would be a shame. On my F25 I had a sunbrella bag made to so I could leave it rigged all the time. Everyone who comes out marvels at how easy it is to fly the chute. Even if you have to rig it ever time, it's still way easier than a traditional spinnaker.
1984 round-mast Freedom 25
Western Shore of the Chesapeake

iansan5653
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2021 4:39 pm

Re: Offshore Downwind with Gunmount Spinnaker

Post by iansan5653 »

On my F21 I leave the lines & pole rigged all the time and stow the spinnaker inside the chute stuffed into a sailbag. This allows me to just stretch the chute out on the deck and tie the lines and I'm good to go. Tying the chute to the gun mount takes the longest, but I use shower curtain rod clips there instead of tying it.
Ian Sanders
1983 Freedom 21 - Shoal Draft
St Petersburg (Tampa Bay), FL

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newt2u
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:24 am
Location: UK

Re: Offshore Downwind with Gunmount Spinnaker

Post by newt2u »

I too leave all lines for the gunpoint spinnaker rigged and keep the spinnaker itself below in a lightweight cloth Shute. This attaches to the gunmount with five small lines, 4 corners and bottom and one line at the tail end, which ties to a station. So rigging means timing these lines off plus the connecting the halliard and clews. I now have a lot more practice with hoisting and dowsing the spinnaker and find it fun and very productive, especially in my last week of sailing, where we had light winds followed by fresh sea breezes and my trips both out and back legs were under spinnaker. I never take down the main under spinnaker and if it is backwinding the spinnaker, I'll either pull the pole across a bit or head up if I am able. I find on a dead downwind course it is faster to keep 20 or so degrees from dead downwind and gybe my way downwind as gybing is a so easy with this setup.
Rockin - F21 twin drop keels - located Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK

hkowalczyk
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:55 am

Re: Offshore Downwind with Gunmount Spinnaker

Post by hkowalczyk »

When I was a kid (7 or 8)I always wanted my dad to fly the spinnaker. He never did because it was usually just the two of us and it was too difficult. That's the single reason I bought my F21! I can't stop smiling every time I fly the spinnaker single handed.

Definitely get a sock made it's worth it and once it's setup it's so easy to fly it.
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newt2u
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Re: Offshore Downwind with Gunmount Spinnaker

Post by newt2u »

I was wondering what conditions other F21 or other gunmount spinnaker Freedoms would consider flying their spinnaker. In the past I have balked at flying mine in anything over 10-12knts. Yesterday however we had a glorious day with wind 15knts gusting up to 20 at times. We had a dead downwind run to make and decided to give it a go. We kept the full main up and headed up just enough to keep the spinnaker stable and gybed a course. It was a wild ride but felt quite comfortable. We were doing around 8 knts I guess and the apparent wind was around 10knts give or take. Later we had to head up even more and it became a bit less stable. I found in the gusts the speed would increase and the wind vane would shift more to a reach, probably around 80 degrees off down wind and she would want to head up but by bearing away in the gusts we kept a pretty good course. I have to say it was the best fun I have had sailing recently and gave me a lot more confidence in flying the spinnaker.
Rockin - F21 twin drop keels - located Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK

unfetteredalexandria
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:57 pm

Re: Offshore Downwind with Gunmount Spinnaker

Post by unfetteredalexandria »

I have often sailed my F25 under chute and full main in the upper teens; boat speed of 8+ knots is pretty readily obtainable. As my original post sort of suggests, it's a lot of fun unless the waves get big enough to start us rolling, especially when they come on the aft quarter. I have found that by reefing down the main, or even dropping it entirely, we can go just as fast and the rolling amplitude is reduced. This works especially well when the course is pretty deep, which also reduces or eliminates any possibility of a crash jibe. As the reach gets higher, there can be a tendency to want to round up in the gusts, but I've never had the rudder stall and end up in a broach. Alone or in combination, heading the boat down, and pulling the upwind end of the pole back so as to collapse or partially collapse the spinnaker (i.e. pole parallel to the apparent wind), is all I've found that it takes to keep things going the way you want them to.
1984 round-mast Freedom 25
Western Shore of the Chesapeake

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newt2u
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Re: Offshore Downwind with Gunmount Spinnaker

Post by newt2u »

Thanks for that, yes feathering the pole to wind sounds like a good technique to have. I too had plenty of rudder authority. I used to have a flat plate rudder but profiled it with foam and GRP, (see here viewtopic.php?f=64&t=13205), which made a big difference. I did take one quick video clip while on that ride, during one of the lulls. I gave the helm to my son and took out the phone. You can see it here:

https://vimeo.com/747617843
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Rockin - F21 twin drop keels - located Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK

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