Dinghy Mounts for F38

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philipl
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:12 pm
Location: Manchester by the Sea, MA

Dinghy Mounts for F38

Post by philipl »

Any recommendations for dinghy mounts for an F38?
Open minded about a hoist system or something that works off the swim platform.
Philip Leahy
F-38 ex Manchester, MA.

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RadioZephyr
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:04 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Dinghy Mounts for F38

Post by RadioZephyr »

I've had two, and I really like my current setup. On my first F38, the previous owner had installed St. Croix model 300 removable davits (since discontinued), which were just sturdy enough to handle my 9.5' RIB and 9.9hp outboard. When I bought my current F38, I decided to go with the larger model 550 davits, which apparently aren't available at Defender anymore. I liked that they're removable, and that they don't depend on the stern rail at all, as the stern rail on the F38 is quite flimsy.

Paul Dennis did the installation, and had two large stainless bases fabricated to tie the davits into the top, front, and back of the transom. Their profile is sorta shaped like an inverted J, with the small end inside the aft cockpit coaming. Two G10 boards were glassed into the inside of the aft vertical part of the transom as backing plates, and smaller ones on the forward vertical were bedded with 5200. It's quite an installation, and the result is that the davits are absolutely rock solid.

They extend nice and far off the transom, so the dinghy never makes contact with anything on its way up. They're also fairly "low profile," at least compared to an arch or some of the stern rail style davits I've seen, and thus keep the weight of the dinghy relatively low. One issue I have with them is that they're constructed of 304 stainless rather than 316 (presumably for strength), which has resulted in rust stains where the tube of my dinghy rubs against the davit arm. I've never seen any actual rust on the davits themselves, just the dinghy, which I guess collects whatever rust I can’t see. To solve this problem, I just cut some PVC reinforced sanitary hose and fit it around the tubes in that area.

I can't seem to find any pictures of the dinghy actually suspended in the davits at the moment, but I've attached some pics of the installation.
Base plates and davit shoes installed
Base plates and davit shoes installed
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Interior backing plates
Interior backing plates
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View from the cockpit
View from the cockpit
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Josh
Sunset Spy
F38, Hull #152
Boston, MA

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rvivian
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Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:08 pm

Re: Dinghy Mounts for F38

Post by rvivian »

Hi -

You might look into the Davron Dinghy-Tow system. http://dinghy-tow.com/

I towed my Portland Pudgy behind F-30 Heart's Desire for a season worked well but the hard dinghy and the small boat and boarding over the stern rail of the F-30 was cumbersome for the short trips I make. Just towing in Puget Sound works fine.

I think it would work well with your sugar scoop.

A bit pricy, though.
Heart's Desire
Freedom 30
Shelton, WA

jlodolce
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:30 pm
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY (Lake Ontario)

Re: Dinghy Mounts for F38

Post by jlodolce »

I installed Kato Islander davits when I purchased my F 40/40 #16 in 2012 and have been very pleased with them. I use my power sail windlass to raise my 12' West Marine inflatable with 9.8 HP Nissan. The last few years we put a 10' kayak inside the inflatable. Very easy to manage.

http://www.katomarine.com/saildavits-island.htm
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Jim Lo Dolce
Lo Dolce Vita VII
Freedom 40/40 #16 1995
Sackets Harbor, NY (Lake Ontario)

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philipl
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:12 pm
Location: Manchester by the Sea, MA

Re: Dinghy Mounts for F38

Post by philipl »

Nice boat and nice solution. I have often considered moving up to the F40/40. I sail my F38 solo a lot with an electric winch and auto helm as my back up crew. Is the F40/40 easy to single hand?
Philip Leahy
F-38 ex Manchester, MA.

jlodolce
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:30 pm
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY (Lake Ontario)

Re: Dinghy Mounts for F38

Post by jlodolce »

Very easy to handle. Very fast, solid boat. Sister ship to Geoff Schultz's Blue Jacket, and he has cruised half the world in it. Electric winch, auto pilot, self tacking jib all makes it a cinch to handle. The biggest issue is learning how to raise the massive main sail. Second issue is having to get up on the bow to take the jib down and tie it to the camberspar. But once you get the knack, it is not difficult. We love the 40/40. This is season #9 for us with her.
Jim Lo Dolce
Lo Dolce Vita VII
Freedom 40/40 #16 1995
Sackets Harbor, NY (Lake Ontario)

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RadioZephyr
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Re: Dinghy Mounts for F38

Post by RadioZephyr »

Here is the dinghy secured in the davits while underway.
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Josh
Sunset Spy
F38, Hull #152
Boston, MA

Bjcmaine
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Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:55 pm

Re: Dinghy Mounts for F38

Post by Bjcmaine »

jlodolce wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:09 pm
I installed Kato Islander davits when I purchased my F 40/40 #16 in 2012 and have been very pleased with them. I use my power sail windlass to raise my 12' West Marine inflatable with 9.8 HP Nissan. The last few years we put a 10' kayak inside the inflatable. Very easy to manage.

http://www.katomarine.com/saildavits-island.htm

2020-06-02_1159 jpg.jpg
Hi Jim!

Do you have more photos of your Kato davits? After losing my dingy I must get davits this summer. Would rather have an arch, but think stern davits are more budget friendly. What was your total cost?
-Bruce Cramer
1995 Freedom 40/40
Hull #11 - Star Struck

jlodolce
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:30 pm
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY (Lake Ontario)

Re: Dinghy Mounts for F38

Post by jlodolce »

Bill,

Attached are a few photos.

I absolutely love my davits and would never want to tow again. There is never a concern about the tow line when motoring, sailing or docking. I takes me no more than 5 minutes to raise and secure the inflatable onto the davits and about 2 minutes to launch. However, there are caveats about installing and using them safely. I see some very serious problems with Josh's setup.

It is extremely important to prevent swaying side to side, which can get wild in rough seas, especially with a 12' inflatable, outboard and gear (~500 pounds?), which could potentially cause the davits to break away from the boat (obviously a disaster) when stressed.

1. A stabilizer bar is critical. Josh apparently did not install the stabilizer bar. I would caution Josh to add this. Kato recommends that you measure for and order the stabilizer bar after the davits are mounted.

2. I pull the inflatable up against the davits as tight as I can to minimize sway as well as to prevent the inflatable to flip over if the load inside the inflatable is unevenly balanced side to side. I also secure my inflatable gas tanks to the inflatable bow to balance it fore to aft. I see a lot of people leaving the inflatable 1-2 feet below the davits, which would be miserable and dangerous in any kind of heavy seas.

3. There are two bolts on each end of the stabilizer bar, which have to be extremely tight, otherwise the ends of the davits move, resulting in sway. I took my stabilizer bar home and tightened them with an air impact wrench, because I could not get them tight enough using a manual wrench.

4. Josh's installation shows that the davits are mounted very close together, which will also make the davits less stable and increase sway. Perhaps that is as far apart as Josh was able to mount them due to his Freedom layout. I recommend mounting the davits as wide apart as possible.

I mount my inflatable with outboard on port side of my Freedom. If you mount the inflatable with engine to starboard side of the Freedom, you would reverse what I say next.

5. To further prevent sway, I found it critically important to run crisscrossed lines diagonally from the stern starboard side of the inflatable to the Freedom starboard davit cleat and a second one from the starboard bow of the inflatable to the Freedom port davit cleat. When I am sailing, I pull these as tight as possible an re-secure them to the davit cleats.

6. I have additional lines from the starboard side of the inflatable to the Freedom port davit cleat on each side to prevent fore/aft sway.

7. I always remove the inflatable drain plug when I raise it onto the davits, and insert somethin(chopstick, wire tie, etc) into the drain to prevent it from getting clogged. If you forget, and it rains, you may end up with an extra several hundred pound of water in it. When I am at dockside, I lower the inflatable stern a few feet to be sure rainwater drains out.

Even with all the above there is some sway, but it is controlled.

I cannot over emphasize what I state above. I sail Lake Ontario, which can get vicious. Anyone sailing has to be prepared for an unexpected squall or gale before you leave the dock or anchorage. I think it is very dangerous to use the davits without the stabilizer bar and lines. I have read of people having the davits rip off the stern in heavy seas.
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Jim Lo Dolce
Lo Dolce Vita VII
Freedom 40/40 #16 1995
Sackets Harbor, NY (Lake Ontario)

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RadioZephyr
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Location: Boston, MA

Re: Dinghy Mounts for F38

Post by RadioZephyr »

There's a few things to unpack here, so I will address them in order:
jlodolce wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 10:43 am
1. A stabilizer bar is critical. Josh apparently did not install the stabilizer bar. I would caution Josh to add this. Kato recommends that you measure for and order the stabilizer bar after the davits are mounted.
The reason I did not install a stabilizer bar on my davits is because they are not Kato davits. The manufacturer does not make a horizontal stabilizer bar for these davits because it's not necessary. They are made entirely of 1-1/2" diameter heavy wall tubing, whereas Kato davits are a mix of 1-1/4" and 1" tubing. They're built stronger, and thus they don't flex. This includes side loads. It's very obvious when you can handle them in person.

I had considered Kato davits, because it initially seemed like an easier installation. However, as soon as I saw that they require a horizontal bar I was out. I didn't want to have to duck underneath a bar whenever I wanted to use the sugar scoop to swim or board my dinghy. To me, Freedom means freestanding masts and freestanding davits.
3. There are two bolts on each end of the stabilizer bar, which have to be extremely tight, otherwise the ends of the davits move, resulting in sway. I took my stabilizer bar home and tightened them with an air impact wrench, because I could not get them tight enough using a manual wrench.
That sounds sketchy as hell. I can't imagine a bolt on something like a davit needing anything more than a regular 9" socket wrench to tighten it. If it really does need to be impact tight, I'd say there's probably a better solution that the engineers didn't bother to figure out.
4. Josh's installation shows that the davits are mounted very close together, which will also make the davits less stable and increase sway. Perhaps that is as far apart as Josh was able to mount them due to his Freedom layout. I recommend mounting the davits as wide apart as possible.
I don't think that's a good recommendation. The distance between the heads of a pair of davits should be approximately equal to the distance between the lifting points of the dinghy. The idea is to lift straight up. This is how the Kato davits are set up in all the pictures on their site.

My dinghy is 9.5', and the lifting points are 58" apart. I installed my davits 58" apart, so that the lines are parallel and 90º to the water when the dinghy is up. You are correct that their location on my transom was limited, unless I was willing to move the factory installed radar mast. However, by a sheer stroke of luck, I had exactly 29" from the centerline available on either side. Without the radar mast, I could have probably gotten another 5" on each side, though the starboard base would have probably interfered with the shore power cable, as the inlet is right there.
Even with all the above there is some sway, but it is controlled.
I never have any sway in my dinghy when underway. If I do, it's because I wasn't paying attention when I secured it, and I just tighten whatever's loose and it's solid again. I still wouldn't cross an ocean with my dinghy in the davits—a boarding wave from astern would easily overwhelm the boat's 1" drain hole, among other concerns—but I have total confidence in my setup when things get rough. I have been tossed around in 12' seas and I have never seen my dinghy move an inch. Once secured, it feels like it's solidly a part of the boat.

For reference: my dinghy weighs 108lb, the outboard weighs 103lb, the battery is 24lb, and a full tank of gas is 19lb, for a total of 254lb. My davits are rated for 500lb, though that seems slightly conservative.
Josh
Sunset Spy
F38, Hull #152
Boston, MA

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