F21 rudder hardware

[iansan5653]

The gudgeons on my rudder need to be replaced as the welded tubes have completely corroded through and are right on the edge of failing. They are Schaefer hardware and I'd ideally like to replace them with the same part in order to avoid having to move the holes and risk exposing the core (the original holes appear to be securely glassed in).

They appear to be very similar to the gudgeons on a J/24 rudder, except modern J/24 gudgeons have staggered holes and my gudgeons' holes all align horizontally. They are also very expensive ($500 for the set!).

Has anyone replaced these parts? Where did you get the replacements?

[iansan5653]

And a bonus question - is there any way to get to the nuts on the transom gudgeon bolts without cutting a hole in the back of the cockpit? Seems impossible but maybe not?

[newt2u]

Ian, I just replaced a wood mounting block for my outboard motor bracket that had 6 bolts through the transom. It is obviously offset from the rudder and the bolts closest to the rudder were a right pain to get off, I doubt you would get to the gudgeon bolts. I was working by feel some 6 to 8 inches from the centreline in a very uncomfortable position. I'd like to know if you succeed!

I also had to reseat my pullpit stantions, which meant removing the nuts from some through deck bolts in my port cockpit locker, which is double skinned like the transom. In the end, I had to cut a hole and put in an inspection hatch, no other way to access them.

[hkowalczyk]

Mine are staggered and match the j/24. Maybe yours aren't original or they used different kinds at different times.

20221218_145258.jpg (59.36 KiB) Viewed 2824 times

[newt2u]

Ian, just a thought. Did you check whether the nuts are captive in the transom void, i.e. epoxied in place? I just had a closer look at my gudgeons, which are made by Seasure, a UK company and are made of aluminium, with a single stainless rod running through both. I was mistaken how far the rudder was from the bolts I found difficult, more like 16" than 8".

[iansan5653]

Interesting that some are staggered. I think the staggered ones are the newer design which should be stronger because the forces are better distributed. Maybe yours were replaced or Freedom changed the design during production. I would switch to staggered but I'd rather not have to drill new holes and seal the core; the existing holes are gelcoated all the way through which gives me more comfort than if I did it myself. Other than the fastener locations, your rudder design looks exactly the same as mine.

@newt2u - your system looks completely different. Maybe that's another UK vs US design change? It looks like you have a smaller pin too. I bet that design is probably longer-lasting than these Schaeffer parts which seem prone to corrosive failure, although the mix of stainless and aluminum could also cause problems over time.

Fortunately it looks like Paul at Warren River Boatworks is going to save the day! He happens to have a lightly used set of the exact parts I'm looking for.

[iansan5653]

I really thought I could get away with just replacing the hardware and repainting, but it turns out this rudder is shot. The core is completely rotten and the gelcoat is crumbling and pitted.

Oh well, guess I get to learn how to build a rudder on my apartment balcony unless I can find a used one somewhere. Maybe Paul will also come through on this. Fingers crossed...

[iansan5653]

Turns out I was able to reach the nuts through the starboard lazarette. It was a little tricky since you can't see and reach at the same time but it wasn't awful.

I'm disappointed by the build quality here though. The factory installed the boat's gudgeons with a wooden backing plate protected only by paint. This backing plate reaches all the way to the bottom of the inside of the transom, leaving it to wick up water and fall apart which is exactly what happened to mine and is why the nuts were loose. The bottom end of the backing plate has essentially disintegrated over the last 40 years of moisture exposure. It should have been coated in epoxy.

The best fix would be to tear out the old backing plate and replace it, but I want to get sailing sometime soon. My less ideal but 'good enough' solution was to stack a GRP plate on top of it. Not perfect but much better than before and should last long enough.

Before the fix: https://i.imgur.com/RuEbQS5.jpg

After: https://i.imgur.com/pdpe5y1.jpg

[newt2u]

Hi Ian, well done, you did a great job getting in there. I don't know if the transom spacing/lazarette layout is different between the US and UK designs but there is no way I could get to my gudgeon bolts through the starboard lazarette ditto port. I have about 3in of internal space between the internal/external transom moldings at the bottom and a bit less at the top. Are your hull and decks cored? I know mine are not and that may account for any differences.

Also you should not be getting standing water at the stern there, as the hull has quite a pronounced rocker and you would only get water there is you had 1 ft or more the cockpit bilge. I used to get quite a bit of ingress into that part of the bilge but I have had a bilge pump in there to keep it reasonably dry. I think I have fixed the leak now by reseating the pulpit stanchions, which seems to have been the source of it. They tend to sit in water as my gunwale drain is not flush with the deck.

I'd be interested in the differences between US and UK manufactured F21s if you have time to respond. I attach pics of my lazaretto and the transom.

[iansan5653]

Yeah I don't think I would normally see standing water there. I think more likely the wood wicked up some condensation and over 40 years that ended up being enough to cause it to deteriorate.

I have a bilge pump in the actual bilge but not behind the bulkhead that divides this stern section. I did recently get surprised by some water in there because I thought it would just drain to the bilge. Another pump might be a good idea.

I don't see any significant differences between your picture and my boat. My decks and cockpit floor are cored - not sure about the hull or back wall of the cockpit. I know the transom is not. The lazarette shape looks exactly the same.