Freedom 40 Aluminum Masts

[bad]

Calling Carl Bertie and other Freedom 40 owners that have the original Al masts or people that know something about them and hi to everyone else

Quick introduction - new owners of a Freedom 40 CC, hull number 21, to be moved from the East Coast to California. Long term plans are to cruise somewhere warm (prepping for 5 years seems reasonable?) Have lurked a bit on this board. You guys know a lot about these boats and are a real resource to us newcomers.

Question about the masts - I've been told (and it looks like) they are made in three sections with each higher one slid into the lower. It also looks like at each seam going from the larger to next smaller section there may be fairing compound to fair in the step change? Is this correct? Also, is there any history of these masts cracking near the seams, the screw holes, etc?

I am sure there are more questions to follow.

Fair winds,

Erik and Evi

[cberdie]

Erik and Evi
I think you're right about the three sections. The first two are joined with sleeves and screws to hold in the sleeves. I think the top, tapered, section is welded on, but I can't tell. The bottom seam definitely has putty to fair it out. The putty has cracked around my screws and seams, but the screws are still tight, and it has been this way for over 15 years.

I've talked to a lot of NonSuch and a few Freedom aluminum mast owners and have only heard of one breaking. It was a 36' NonSuch that was first hit by lightning, and then later in the storm was knocked over far enough for the mast to hit the water. The boat came upright, sailed for 5 minutes, and then the mast came over, after the storm had left. I was told the break was right where the mounts for the choker were, at least four screw holes around the circumference.

Always gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to know that there are only two small holes in my masts, for the forward boom topping lift padeye.

The original Freedom 40's were designed with the carbon fiber that I saw in Hull number 1. The aluminum was because the insurance companies couldn't survey the fiber ones after a lightning strick and wouldn't insure them.

Go cruising as soon as you can afford it. The boat improvement list never goes away. The education in the first month of cruising will equal 10 years of marina life. Your health is not likely to improve until you leave. We've found part time cruising to work great. You may have to leave your boat a long way from home, but you have no marina fees for the time you are using it.

Following Seas

Carl Berdie,
www.RunningFree.us

[bad]

Thanks Bertie, esp about the advice regarding the cruising... I agree!!!

[skring]

Erik and Evi
AKA Freedom 40 CC hull 21
I own Freedom 40 cc hull 20 -is you boat on the east coast of the US ?
Steve Kring

[bad]

Hey Steve. Boat is in NY, but we are shipping it to the SF Bay Area

Erik

[skring]

Erik,
When are you shipping and are masts stepped?
I am building neew mast and feel that I have a good handle on them but would like as much information as possible prior to the build.
By continually shortning the must do list I will be back sailing in a reasonble time.
My boat has a San Diego hail port.
Thanks Steve

[skring]

Carl Berdie,

A few more-maybe more- questions if I may?
Are your masts stepped or in the yard?
Are the mast bases closed with an aluminum cap fitting as on the Nonsuch mast I have seen?
Do you have running back stays?
I understand my boat originally had them.
Are both masts the same length then when stepped the forward mast sets higher that the Mizzen?
How many haylard/toping lift blocks in general do you have on your mast head?
Any Blocks facing foward?
Do you know the thickness of the mast extrusion on your boat?
Do you see any reason not to build the booms out of aluminum?
I have made a full scale drawing of original wooden booms that I viewed-We can bend just about anything here.
I have seen a number 5 Freedom 40CC and no two masts are the same-some carbon fiber-some aluminum-each different.

Thanks Again,

Steve Kring
I believe I am getting close

[cberdie]

Steve;
My masts are stepped. They are open at the bottom end and appear to be about 1/4" thick, (I haven't measured, and wouldn't swear by this).

The Mizzen mast is about three or four feet longer (again I haven't measured), than the Main. When stepped, the main is a few, (6 to 12") inches higher than the mizzen.

Main masthead has a block on a becket facing forward, (I use it for the radar reflector), and the block for the main halyard. There is a shackle for the main topping lift behind the halyard. The mizzen has the staysail halyard on a becket forward, the mizzen halyard block, and the running backstay and topping lift shackles behind the halyard block.

The line connecting the sail heads to the halyard will make the top of the sail be a few feet below the masthead when raised. The mast must be longer than the luff. The line must be long enough to reach around the mast circumference when the sail is lowered, the mast circumference is much less at the masthead.

I've got running backs and you will need them to fly staysails. The storm staysail will sail you on all points of sail. I've used it confidently with gusts that went to 65 knots. The monster is just plain fun, it's nice to outrun fully rigged racers flying their chutes with little or no work.
The running backs tie to the toerail just forward of the mizzen mast when not in use. They go to the very aft end of the toerail when in use. The wire is attached to a handy billy at the lower end to get the length right when moving them.

I've seen aluminum wishbones on Freedoms and see no reason why they wouldn't work on a 40.

It appears that I have more ballast added under the salon. I don't remember seeing this on the carbon fiber boats I saw. If you're replacing carbon fiber with aluminum, I would certainly hire a naval architectt to make sure it all works.

Good luck with it all.
Carl Berdie

[skring]

Carl Berdie,

Thanks again. I have assembled a great deal of information on the rigs and am ready to meet with a designer I feel comfortable with.
My boat had both Aluminum and Carbon fiber mast during its life -not sure of the order-It has no masts now-hence so many questions.
I will be using aluminum masts.
I would still like to see your boat when rigged, if possible ,so I will stay in touch.
My goal is to be restored to a point-rigged and sailing mid summer.
Thanks again

Steve Kring

[bad]

Steve - Some random thoughts:

This F40 supposedly has been re-rigged with Nonsuch masts and booms (off of the N36 I was told) http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1979/Fr ... ted-States. The owner may have helpful info.

My masts seem to be pretty standard and were made out of three sections, bottom is NOT tappered (this makes installation on the boat much more straight forward), the short middle transition piece is, the longer top end is also. The sections are bolted together by as series of machine screws (both circumferential and longitudinal) Masts are capped at the top with cranes for the halyards. 1/4 in thickness for the lower section is about right (there is a 3x4 rectangular hole about 8 " from the bottom to let cables out.

There are two aft halyards on the main and a forward and aft halyard on the mizzen.
There are boom topping lifts (wire with an adjustable purchase at the end of the boom) and boom lifts for the front of the booms. I have a single aft runner on the mizzen that is attached to the front of the mast crane and can be flipped to either side depending on which is windward.

The mizzen mast is going to be longer than the main - simply because the distance from the deck to the mast step is longer aft in the boat. But as to height above water and sail dimensions, main and mizzen may be the same. Or not... From http://www.mauriprosailing.com/techinfo ... ig%20F.htm or http://www.pyacht.com/RigDataF.htmyou can get a sense of some of the sail dimensions that are possible (listed as model and then P/E for main then mizzen)

FREEDOM 40 42.0/20.3 42.0/18.3
FREEDOM 40 AC BOOM 45.1/16.3 40.8/15.0
FREEDOM 40 CC BOOM 45.1/16.3 41.6/15.0
FREEDOM 40 WISHBONE 42.0/18.3 42.0/18.3

I saw the earlier discussion on the necessary rigging for the original wrap-around sails. Whereas I really like the concept of the whishbone boom (I've got many miles on Wyliecat 30s), the original F$0 sail plan may not large enough. From what I've heard, the F40 is a bit slow in light breeze, which to me indicates the need for larger sails. You have the option of building taller masts, but I am considering more roach - and in order to support that I think I need sail track on the masts, full length battens and stronger booms.

I do have questions about how you are planning on building your mast replacements - Al or Carbon? And your boom design. Tom Wylie has done both Al and carbon booms for the Wyliecats (30, 39, and larger). On problem that I am aware of is that the joints at the boom ends fail due to the large compressive loads the booms see when the outhaul (ooker?) is applied.

You are more than welcome to look at my masts/rigging when the boat gets here in May. I'll gladly take any and all pictures and dimensions for you, too.


Erik