F44, raising and lowering the sails

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rds
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:32 pm

F44, raising and lowering the sails

Post by rds »

I want to ask the forum the question (tips , tricks , modifications) about hoisting and dropping the sails on my F44. My Freedom has been originally set up with booms , sail track and lazy jacks. It is always a pain to raise and specially drop main sail (and the mizzen for this matter but at least it is closer to the wheel. ). Battens are so long and basic lazy jacks just do not keep them all on the boom so they bend , twist and terribly complicate things. It looks like my setup is exactly the same as on other smaller ketches but probably due to the fact that F44 has biggest , heaviest and longest sail / battens combination it is not just work right. Sails do not drop down by themselves but stuck somewhere on the 1/3 way down and I have to run forward and pull reef lines and track slugs manually. I like to sail alone On the way up sails stuck somewhere in the middle and I have to use some considerable amount of time and force. Originally I thought that was due to bad sail slugs , old halyard , e.t.c but now I think that somehow lower longest battens bend , get slightly forward and against the mast and somehow “pinch” the mast. In addition to that there is no topping lift so booms sagging and pulling main sail and battens down and forward.
I’ve tried to read thru the forum but still can’t come up with definite answer. Seems like new sail track / batten cars are not the answer, rigid vang, add lazy jack lines to the end of the boom ? It would interesting to know what others did about this issue, is any proven solution to this ?

unfetteredalexandria
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:57 pm

Re: F44, raising and lowering the sails

Post by unfetteredalexandria »

Just a thought: is your outhaul (and reef lines) completely or at least mostly eased when you go to douse?
1984 round-mast Freedom 25
Western Shore of the Chesapeake

katorpus
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: F44, raising and lowering the sails

Post by katorpus »

I feel your pain there...my setup is exactly the same with the same problems (F40 Aft Cockpit Cat Ketch).
Some things to help:
Before raising the sails, make SURE that the lazy jacks are tensioned so that the boom is perpendicular to the mast!
Mark the lazy jack line so that you can "return" to that setting when dousing.

I haven't found any significant improvement in "jamming" to result from easing the outhaul, but you should do it anyway to avoid stretching the foot of the sail out of shape when not sailing.

The external sail track is pop-riveted to the mast and made up of multiple sections. If any of the rivets fail in the vicinity of the butt-joint where two of these pieces meet, then the sail slugs will jam when raising/lowering the sail. This results in the need to use force to get past that point (when raising the sail) and also in "piling up" as the slug jams in the same spot on the way down. Go up the mast & inspect all of the rivets. Drilling them out & replacing them with monel pop-rivets is NOT a lot of fun, but necessary at times. Take your "Dremel tool" up with you with a variety of bits and grind any "snag spots" where the tracks meet there should be NO play between the track sections where they meet. If you've drilled them loose to re-attach them, round the edges of any snag points before re-riveting (using your Dremel tool).

Keep the track CLEAN. There are a variety of ways to do this, some can be done from deck level using a halyard, a retrieval line & a headboard or sail slugs with "wiper" rags attached to same. If nothing else, a trip up the mast in a bosun's chair with a garden hose & scrub brush will work.

Before sailing, spray SailKote liberally on all sides of all slugs while the sail is stacked up on the boom, and as far up as you can reach on the sail track itself. SailKote won't "dirty" or gum up the slides or track, but make sure they stay reasonably clean and free of salt/sand & other gunk by using boat soap & a brush on the "stack" when you're cleaning the deck.

If the sail is jamming on the hoist, don't apply additional force...instead, ease the halyard & "jiggle" the headboard and/or slides past the snag. Added force will only make things worse. When lowering, watch the sail & battens. If a slug jams & the outer end of the batten gets "lower" than the mast end of the batten, hoist the sail back up a little & "jiggle" it past the snag. More weight of more battens & sail piling up on the snag will not improve things. Tugging it down with the reef line won't either.

I singlehand mostly as well. If everything's working ok, I can hoist my main within two feet of the masthead without using the winch, and the mizzen pretty much all the way.

Dropping the sails in no wind is not much fun, they actually do better with a pretty stiff breeze. The key is to head straight into the wind (I use the motor at this point...with just enough forward speed to luff the sails completely) & drop the mizzen first with the sheets eased enough that you are "weathervaning" the boom & sail so that they are dead downwind during the drop. Make sure you have proper tension on the lazy jacks. What ends up on top of the boom can look pretty ugly (particularly if it's blowing hard), but I usually just throw a couple of sail ties around the mess to keep it contained until I'm anchored or back at the dock. I then move the halyards to the outer ends of the booms & use them as a topping lift to relieve tension on the lazy jacks a little while pulling the sails & battens straight.

rds
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:32 pm

Re: F44, raising and lowering the sails

Post by rds »

It seems like outhaul release / tension action has no effect on jamming the sail. Kartopus , thanks a lot for the detailed explain. Good points about sail track butt edges, rivets and the marks on the lazy jack line. I’ve seen one sail track joint about 10 feet up from boom but it did not cross my mind that there were more of them up the mast .. (and so stupid of me.. I had main mast down this winter to repair top hat and replace halyard sheave and blocks on top and did not really checked the track ). Yes, I guess this weekend is going to be about sailkote and mast climbing ..
I would say that the whole setup is working but not so satisfactory. My standard lazy jacks system has just couple of “segments” of one line on each side of the boom. Sail battens on the other hand are pretty long . The line “segments” furthest to the aft crosse the boom probably somewhere 2/3 to 3/5 of boom length so leech ends of battens are blown to either side of boom and bending pretty badly even with the smallest change of wind’s direction or just dropping down from the boom. I think that maybe lazy jack system itself needs to be modified ? more of these segments , say 3 or 4 on each side ? and probably lead that lazy jack line somehow via the blocks into the cockpit to make boom height adjustments easily ? maybe something like on the attached image ?
I am not sure though , just trying to see some pro and cons.
I do almost the same things myself: start the engine up , point into the wind ,tensioning lazy jack lines, lowering the main sail first , mizzen second and use a couple of ties on each sail. And it is really pain to run back and forth yanking the main halyard, pulling the sail and trying to steer exactly into the wind near the pretty active waterway and between several shoals.
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Last edited by rds on Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

katorpus
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: F44, raising and lowering the sails

Post by katorpus »

Having learned to learn from others, I observed a former marina-neighbor who had an old wooden Paul Luke-Auge Nielson ketch. He was in his early 80's & did all work on the boat himself. Wooden masts require a lot of trips up & down to refinish.

He had bought a Nauta bag big enough to contain enough water to match his own weight, hauled it to the masthead (empty) with a garden hose trailing behind. When he had the bag "two-blocked", he tied off his bosun's chair to the other end of the halyard hip-height while standing at the mast base.

He then had his wife turn on the garden hose & filled the bag until it started to lift him off the deck, then ...counterbalanced, he simply "floated" up to the masthead. Once he "met" the bag on its way down, he merely controlled his ascent by gripping the halyard that was holding the bag.

Once the bag was on the deck, she added a couple of more gallons to offset the loss of the weight of the hose, then sealed the bag. He could have done that himself midway, but trusted her to do so.

He was then, by way of this elegant construction, able to move easily up & down the mast with nearly no effort, burning off old varnish with a heat gun, scraping, sanding & revarnishing. He made 80 round trips in the course of refinishing those two masts. He'd done this about every two years...for over 30 years.

At lunch time & at the end of each day, he simply had his wife cleat the end of the halyard while he stood on the deck, then wormed his way out of the bosun's chair, leaving the bag full of water at the masthead. When the job was complete on each mast, he simply eased the halyard to allow the bag to descend to deck level, drained out the bag & moved on...never having had to lift any more than the weight of the empty bag & the garden hose. She sat in the cockpit reading the whole time he was working, just in case he got hung up or needed help or just wanted something sent up on a messenger line.

I now have my own Nauta bag & look forward to putting it to good use in the near future. Needless to say, one's halyards should be very dependable before undertaking this. Since I have a second halyard on each mast, it will be a simple thing to run that through a turning block at the mast base, tie it off to the halyard shackle and provide a "safety" by clipping a Gibbs ascender to the extra halyard tail and attach that by webbing strap to the halyard shackle and then to my harness. In that manner, my safety line will move through the blocks at masthead & base as I ascend or descend (by sliding the ascender along the tail) and, if the other rig should break, my fall would be stopped. (Jim didn't bother with such things).

I expect that this will attract a lot of "marina interest", even though I'm only 60 (not in my 80's)

Thanks to Jim & L.N. LeFleur for this great idea!

wcwcwc
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Location: F36 Padanaram, MA

Re: F44, raising and lowering the sails

Post by wcwcwc »

While not the same boat as yours, on my F36 I have a Strong Track https://www.tidesmarine.com/?page_id=61 originally installed by a previous owner. Sail is heavy and takes some muscle to get it up but it never snags. Lowering sail is effortless, It comes down like a freight train.
Bill Cormack
Formerly Sailing F-36 "Hard Earned" out of New Bedford Yacht Club, Padanaram, MA. Now a member of Pelagic Sailing Club a New England based club whose members are about half boat owners and half crew.

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Michel
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Location: Zaanstad, the Netherlands, EU

Re: F44, raising and lowering the sails

Post by Michel »

The sails on my F44 go up and down smoothly, although they are quite heavy. I have Antal track and slides on the main and Tides Marine Strongtrack on the mizzen. However I have (fixed height) wishbones so there is no tension in the foot when the sails are partially down.

It may be the case that your battens are tensioned in the pockets. That's not necessary, it's not a windsurfer sail that doesn't keep shape with untensioned battens. The leech tension will create enough depth in the sails.

With a roached sail like on the F44 you probably need to adjust your lazyjack setup to get hold of the aft half of the sail. and perhaps your track and/or slides are damaged.
Michel Capel, Freedom 44 #4 1981 'Alabama Queen', NED8188, cat ketch with wishbones, home port Enkhuizen, the Netherlands, 52*42.238'N 005*18.154'E.

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Hans
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Location: Deventer, The Netherlands
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Re: F44, raising and lowering the sails

Post by Hans »

My F45 is a different boat with a fixed boom but with a big mainsail. I experience the same problem only when the lower battens are falling besides the boom instead on top of it. The battens than have an angle upwards and prevents the higher ones from coming down. What works in my case is putting so much tension on the lazy jacks ( they do'nt come to the end of the boom) that dropping besides the boom is almost impossible. I motor up in the wind, ease the mainsheet so the vang will push the boom up a little bit, tension the lazy jacks by hand as much as possible, then tension the mainsheet with a winch pulling the boom down so the lazy jacks stands almost 'rockhard'. I have laid out the main halyard before so it can run out freely, release the halyard clutch and let the sail drop completely free. Using the initial speed when dropping to let it come down completely. No idea when such a thing is possible with a wishbone boom.
On the 45 there is a Harken car system which comes down easily, on the 38 there is a normal track with slugs. I agree with Katorpus that a clean track is most important. Every year I go up the mast of the 38 and clean the track with the most aggressive grease remover I can find, clean the slugs as well. Spray with Sailkote ( and only that, never with something containing any fat or grease), this works almost as good as the Harken track system.
Hans Hansen, Makkum,The Netherlands.
Freedom 45AC #47 "Scherezade".

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