Freedom 21 Mast Creaking and movement

Lionel7
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:12 pm

Freedom 21 Mast Creaking and movement

Post by Lionel7 »

I have owned two Freedom 21's, both with the hinged mast. The second one has developed some mast creaking caused by movement at the base of the mast where it sits on the mast step. It seems to be getting worse.

Our boat is sailed for three months in the summer and is kept on a mooring in a large lake that is subject to continued pounding from waves created by boat traffic, mostly those good old wake board boats whose purpose in life is to make big waves. The boat has to be subjected to thousands of waves putting stress on the bottom of that mast. Two summers ago I started to hear some creaking and noticed a very slight movement of the mast on top of the base under certain sailing conditions. I called Paul Dennis, and he said don't worry about it so I didn't. This year, it is worse. The mast creaks now under most sailing conditions, the movement at the base is about 1/8", and sometimes there is a grinding sound as well as creaking. The L shaped stainless steel bracket attached to the mast and the platform the mast base sets on is flexing too. I understand these brackets on many of the Freedom mast bases keep the mast from rotating. The part of the bracket that attaches to the platform has a slot at the end through which a bolt passes through the bracket and the mast base platform. I am concerned this bolt will come loose and the L bracket become free. I also observe some black chips of fiberglass or carbon fibre which is also concerning lying around the base of the mast. I have read some other posts with mast creaking problems on other model Freedoms. There are several base designs and I am interested mostly in what is going on with 21's

1. Has anyone else with a Freedom 21 had this problem?
2. What is the mast base (a top hat of sorts) constructed of?
3. Any solutions you are aware of?

Doug
S/V Maketea
Freedom 21 Hull # 112

peaceandfreedom
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: F33 CK & F38 CK Milford ct

Re: Freedom 21 Mast Creaking and movement

Post by peaceandfreedom »

Both the main and mizzenmast on my Freedom 33 CK have a mast collar with turnbuckles tensioned to port and stbrd, to prevent the mast from rotating. On the main mast the collar is right below the deck, on the mizzenmast at the base. Zero movement in either mast.

Happy sailing
Jim D

chadrider
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:36 pm

Re: Freedom 21 Mast Creaking and movement

Post by chadrider »

My mast creaks a little too. I have not spent a lot of time looking into it, but I think it is the mast base moving a tiny amount since it does it when the boat pitches with the mast under load. I think the noise happens when the base moves (a tiny bit) dragging the end of the mast across the step. It is kinda like dragging a paper cup over a counter top. I would rig up a collar that held it more securely than the single bolt and bracket except getting the mast up through the partners with the bleeping bracket on it is difficult enough! You have the hinged mast and can get your stub properly seated and not take it out every year!
Chad Rider
Rumford, RI
02916

Freedom 21 "Frisson"
1984, Deep Keel, Gunmount.

peaceandfreedom
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: F33 CK & F38 CK Milford ct

Re: Freedom 21 Mast Creaking and movement

Post by peaceandfreedom »

On my F33 CK, he mast collars preventing my masts from rotating are made of two pieces, bolted together in the middle. Two of the four nuts are eye nuts to which the turnbuckles are attached.

happy sailing
Jim D
Attachments
mizzen mast.jpg
mizzen mast.jpg (5.9 KiB) Viewed 5147 times
main mast.jpg
main mast.jpg (7.18 KiB) Viewed 5147 times

Lionel7
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:12 pm

Re: Freedom 21 Mast Creaking and movement

Post by Lionel7 »

OK folks, I spoke to the man - Paul Dennis who knows all things Freedom. He told me the fix for this problem. It involves disassembling the mast stub/hinge assembly removing it from the boat and adding fiberglass to the inside of the bottom of the mast stub where it is less than perfectly contacting the mast step "hat" on the mast step platform. I have written three pages of instructions to give to my yard who will do the repair on Paul's solution from notes I made in talking to him. I can post that if anyone cares to see it. After the summer season is over, I will have the yard do the work in the fall. Sounds like it should work out. I just don't have the experience or tools/place to work to effect the repair myself. Doug Payne

Doug
S/V Island Time – O’Day 272
S/V Maketea – Freedom 21 - #112

chadrider
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:36 pm

Re: Freedom 21 Mast Creaking and movement

Post by chadrider »

Paul would know! It actually corresponds neatly with what I have observed. Sooooooo, when I next have my mast out, I will shim the bottom to fit the "hat" more closely. I may also fabricate something like the CK33 collars. A bit of overkill for the 21 but it solves my "through the partners" problem with the existing bracket. People have asked me, "why don't you just unbolt the bracket?" and there are two reasons:
  • Foremost, the aluminum bracket attached to the carbon fiber mast with stainless bolts has galvanically welded the bolts into the bracket and thus the bracket to the mast.
  • Balancing the mast halfway out of the rocking boat as I attack the welded bolts up through the mast from the back has proved nervewracking
So, having the collar which I can just unbolt off the outside and remove will reduce the trouble a lot.
Chad Rider
Rumford, RI
02916

Freedom 21 "Frisson"
1984, Deep Keel, Gunmount.

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jamesorr
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:55 pm
Location: Rochester, NY
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Re: Freedom 21 Mast Creaking and movement

Post by jamesorr »

Just some quick feedback on how I resolved my creaking problem (Mull 32). As opposed to building up the mast tophat, I took a number of measurements on the tophat and the inside of the mast, and built up a bit of epoxy on the inside of the mast to match the difference as measured about 3 inches up the bottom of the mast (wasn't much, perhaps a 32nd or a bit more if memory serves). Made this repair several years ago -- and haven't experienced any mast creaking since (and my mast gets pulled every year).
James Orr
Orr What
1988 Freedom 32 (Mull)
Sodus Bay, NY

hkowalczyk
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:55 am

Re: Freedom 21 Mast Creaking and movement

Post by hkowalczyk »

It would be great to see your instructions for future reference.

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jamesorr
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Re: Freedom 21 Mast Creaking and movement

Post by jamesorr »

To be honest, it was kind of simplistic. I first acquired a decent caliper large enough to measure the inside of the mast and the outside of the tophat -- which I measured in several directions. Then I proceeded to mix up a small batch of West System epoxy (no filler), which I "painted onto the inside of the mast approximately 3 inches up from the base (the approximate height of the tophat). Let it harden, re-measure, and repeated until I was happy with the new measurements (I believe for me it was 3 coats).
James Orr
Orr What
1988 Freedom 32 (Mull)
Sodus Bay, NY

walterg
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Re: Freedom 21 Mast Creaking and movement

Post by walterg »

I'm not familiar with the F-21, so not sure this applies, but I did repair this on my Mull 28. After doing some light repairs to the mast step (the "top hat" shown below" I covered it with packing tape and mold release wax to make a female mold. I then used the female mold to make a male mold, both shown below. Next I used the male mold, which is now essentially a replicate of the top hat, as a template to build up the interior of the mast with 3" strips of fiberglass cloth until I got the fit I wanted. In my case the gap between the top hat and the mast was almost a full 3/16", so there was a lot of build-up needed. The mold let me get a snug fit without worries that the yard would have problems installing the mast.
The creaking and banging, especially at anchor in nasty weather and when going downwind in swells, was anxiety-producing even if it's not a structural concern. Combined with the separate project of rebuilding the mast collar at the deck, all of the problems went away and it has made a world of difference in the liveability of the boat.
Attachments
mast step1.jpeg
mast step1.jpeg (80.12 KiB) Viewed 5046 times
Mast repair3.jpeg
Mast repair3.jpeg (74.78 KiB) Viewed 5046 times
Walter Gotham
Salem MA USA
'87 Freedom 28-Mull #33 "Nova Vita"

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